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Postby Abou Jamra » Wed May 28, 2008 4:08 pm

Prince Cadmus II wrote:Hehe, hard question to answer....
I'm enforcing the use of non-violence in a non-provocative... would that be regarded as force? Enforcing restraint. Perhaps if you want to be legal about it, then you can argue to certain degrees on that side, but the intention is not to use force, and the intention is important here.


Yes it is and your intention is to close the door and KEEP it closed. How?

Adel sumed it up best best... best form of defence is attack. the lion is going to wake up one moment and you better be ready for him when he does.

i hope by closing the door you mean ceasing provocation and ending threats. i agree. shut them out... for a while... because i do hope to have peace GENUINE PEACE with these peoplE one day but not until we have gotten back what is rightfully ours. You brother is in the cage and the cage is in your backyard your property not your neighbours. give us what is ours, then we will upgrade out national defense capabilities (upgrading the army) and then we will implement the MOU. the solution to all your problems.
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Postby haroun » Wed May 28, 2008 8:40 pm

On a list of priorities needed to save Lebanon these days, Israel is last. I don't believe anyone can prove it occupies any Lebanese soil. Besides, fatass and his army were never given a mandate to fight for any other Lebanese or liberate a Lebanese land that 99.9999% of Lebanese never knew it exists. Let’s assume that this land exists. I prefer it stays in Israeli hands to save it from becoming another polluted run down southern city and a playground for Iranian terrorists.

As far as keeping the door closed, if you go back in history that what Israel has been begging Lebanon to do since 1967. Keep the PLO and fatass and his army out. And if anyone is counting on these terrorists to defend him from Israel he’s hallucinating.

شمعون: حرام أن يعير احد عون أهمية لأن دواءه ليس عندنا بل في العصفورية
الجوزو: لقد سقط لبنان وسقطت حكوماته، بفضل إرهاب حزب الله
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Postby Adel » Wed May 28, 2008 11:44 pm

is the lion in Damascus or Tel Aviv?
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Postby haroun » Thu May 29, 2008 12:22 am

There is an "assad" in damascus, he's more a rabbit than a lion, but the lion that we need to cage is in Lebanon.

شمعون: حرام أن يعير احد عون أهمية لأن دواءه ليس عندنا بل في العصفورية
الجوزو: لقد سقط لبنان وسقطت حكوماته، بفضل إرهاب حزب الله
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Postby Adel » Thu May 29, 2008 12:49 am

haroun wrote:There is an "assad" in damascus, he's more a rabbit than a lion, but the lion that we need to cage is in Lebanon.


the murdering lion of greed and corruption
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Postby Prince Cadmus II » Thu May 29, 2008 12:56 am

haroun wrote:There is an "assad" in damascus, he's more a rabbit than a lion, but the lion that we need to cage is in Lebanon.


Hahahaha!!! I never actually thought of that, that's a good one.

Tammy made a mention about something about Israel is killing everyone and its possibly coming for "me" next.

Well I've been around and I haven't felt threatened by anybody except for a group of motorcyclists who blocked me from driving back home in 2006 back to Jieh when travelling south from Beirut. It wasn't Israeli troops, it wasn't the Syrian army.

Yes, you guessed it, it was a group of Hezbollah supporters (about 50) who prevented me from moving for half an hour. It wasn't intentional, they were just having a party because the war started.

Look, you have more chance of getting hit and dying in a car accident than being killed by the Israeli Defence Force, just look at the statistics. If you don't harm somebody, they won't harm you. When was the last time you saw Israel invade Syria? What about Jordon? What about Egypt? Those days are long long gone. But the pattern is, if you pick a fight with someone, they are sure to come running after you. If you just leave them alone, then you have nothing to worry about, they have no excuse to come and blow you up. See take the Palestinians for example, the reason they wage war against Israel is because of what Israel did to them. If Israel didn't do anything to them, then they would have no reason to fight them. Why don't you fight China? I suggest you go and destroy all of China.... See you will be thinking now "Why should I go and attack China? What did China do to me?"

Even if someone can be your worst enemy, the trick is to not make them your worst enemy, instead finding alot of things that are in common and building a relationship of trust from that. I can tell you fair and square right now that there is more in common with the Jews and the Arabs than there are differences.
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Postby tammy » Thu May 29, 2008 3:30 am

They are harming you but u cant see it because 3andak nes bi jnoub protecting you if hizib were not there believe me beruit ma betshofowa and if u tell me you can get your land and hostages peacefully through the UN am sorry but i will not be able to call you anything but and idiot because you saw wat the UN did in the war and dont start telling me who started the war and this crap you saw with your own eyes that isreal attacked all lebanon and all the lebanese blocked all the roads so it wasnt an attack ony on hiziballa!!!JUST TRY TO LOOK BEYOND YOU NOSE IT MIGHT HELP!
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Postby haroun » Thu May 29, 2008 5:51 am

How exactly is Israel harming me? Better yet, who is defending me from that harm? Are you implying that after its imaginary victories, this hizb continues to protect Lebanon from imaginary enemies and harms?

Despite your belief that it is crap, I am going to remind you of the cause of that "war" and that civilized countries do not attack each others unprovoked!

We all recall the celebrations after HA militia fighters crossed into Israel unprovoked, killed 7 soldiers and kidnapped two. HA thought this a normal thing neighbors do to each other everyday and expected to get away with it. Fortunately it didn't! And we all paid dearly for it.

What attacks on Lebanon have you seen on TV? the roads, the trucks, the bridges were military assets, the runways of the airport were bombed as part of an air, sea and land blockade, the army radar installations were bombed because they became a military asset for HA after it fed telemetry data to HA silkworm missiles used against their navy ships. Manar and TV station towers were hit because they were part of propaganda war aand the communication network. Da7hieh neighborhoods were hit to punish the leaders and destroy their headquarters. Overall, 95% of the targets were assets that belonged to HA or used in their activities. Civilians lost were regarded as expected collateral damage since they refused to abide by leaflets ordering them to leave.

Now if you still reading, you’ll ask did this punishment fit the crime? I say no, but in wars one should expect anything and everything from his enemy. A power like Israel has nukes, bio and chems in addition of some of the most advanced weaponry known to man and they are not afraid to use them. in order to be successful, their enemy has to calculate to the 100th decimal point before he adventures into an aggression against them (recall Sadat, Mubarak, and Assad and many others). Contrary to what you may feel or think, Lebanon and HA had little sympathy around the world during that war. It's time for ha to give it up and put the trust in the place it always belonged - the Lebanese government.

شمعون: حرام أن يعير احد عون أهمية لأن دواءه ليس عندنا بل في العصفورية
الجوزو: لقد سقط لبنان وسقطت حكوماته، بفضل إرهاب حزب الله
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Postby Ant0ni0 » Thu May 29, 2008 11:17 am

haroun wrote: put the trust in the place it always belonged - the Lebanese government.


lol, hahahahah
ok
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Postby Prince Cadmus II » Thu May 29, 2008 3:09 pm

tammy wrote:They are harming you but u cant see it because 3andak nes bi jnoub protecting you if hizib were not there believe me beruit ma betshofowa and if u tell me you can get your land and hostages peacefully through the UN am sorry but i will not be able to call you anything but and idiot because you saw wat the UN did in the war and dont start telling me who started the war and this crap you saw with your own eyes that isreal attacked all lebanon and all the lebanese blocked all the roads so it wasnt an attack ony on hiziballa!!!JUST TRY TO LOOK BEYOND YOU NOSE IT MIGHT HELP!


Tammy I respect your opinion here but there is absolutely no need for you to be angry on this forum. I know there are many people on here who wish to vent their anger on everybody else, but please try and use just less offensive tone here.

The whole idea of this place is to exchange ideas and not usurp other people's opinions and trumping them as nonsense.

When I read international politics, I look at everything at a whole. I am not denying that Hezbollah put up a big fight and saved alot here. The fact is there are many hezbollah fighters who were originally Amal in those days, and there are plenty of them as well who even fought on the side of the SLA!! In those terrible times of war, people do anything to put food on the table for their families, their children. Do you think anybody cares about ideology?

Be reasonable here. If you don't pick a fight with somebody, they do not out of nowhere attack you. It takes two to tango here. Israel knew Hezbollah will throw the first punch, and they had calculated this and prepared for that scenario.

The Arabs continually make this mistake over and over again with Israel for over 60 years now. Israel provokes with something on the side, the Arabs then fight them with violence, and Israel (now acting in the defensive side) fights back with extreme force and destroys everything in its path.

So tell me now who is at fault? According to the Geneva Conventions of War, Israel is defending itself because Hezbollah crossed into Israeli territory first for no reason and killed and ambushed Israeli soldiers. If it was meant to be protecting Lebanon, why then was it really acting to redirect war in Gaza to ease the suffering of the Gazans by making the Lebanese suffer instead? Is Gaza in Lebanon? I don't think it is.

Okay so the legal battle here is, Israel immediately saw it as the green light because according to these conventions, they will not be tried for crimes because they fell under this law which is justifiable and consistent among many nations in the world. Can you imagine Israeli guerrillas ambushing an Iranian border guard and killing a few others? Do you think Iran will sit by and take that and be humiliated? DO you think they will have a picnic and a laugh about this? No, because the Geneva Conventions allow them to defend their nation by whatever is necessary, and Israel did that by crippling Hezbollah areas, and then crippling the government infrastructure for not doing anything about the Hezbollah group. It is all tied to that original catalyst that Hezbollah threw the first punch. I was in Beirut at the time watching Hezbollah supporters handing out sweets and chocolates in a ghoulish festival of joy at the deaths and ambushes of Israeli soldiers. I personally did not care, but you have to just understand the climate here. People celebrating death by murder is not a normal thing to be having fun over in the rest of the world. If you wish to bring your country back to jungle law, then you have to fend for yourself, so its a call that only each person can make for themselves.

You have to put your hatred of Israel aside and look at this problem from an impartial point of view. Think of Syria for instance. Syria has never really used any viable military force against Israel, yet it has no peace treaty like Jordon or Egypt does, and in return, Israel does not invade Syria. Syria has no resistance group fighting from its land. In fact I doubt any group such as Hezbollah will even be allowed to fight from Syrian soil.

My point here is that Israel fights, but to take a capital like Beirut is something even the free thinking world can not allow. Israel in its wars always has to maintain their international status and justify legally all their actions. Of course smaller things pass by unchecked, but when you look at this in retrospect, Israel wouldnt do things without being legally justifiable. When Israel invaded Beirut in 82, they did not last for long there and pulled back to the buffer zone in the south for the remaining period.

Do you see what I'm speaking about? Hezbollah was not there at that time to pull them out of Beirut! They pulled out because of their own tactical decisions because they have to balance war with international war and justification. Hezbollah does not have to do this therefore it is much easier for Hezbollah to maneouvre on this because they are defending. When Israel attacked in 2006, they warned all areas to be cleared well in advance of any attack. They also bombarded in times of minimal road traffic. They did this to minimise civilian losses. Can you imagine the civilian losses that would have occurred if they were doing most of their bombardments during the day? All this was calculated beforehand.

Now the question you have to ask yourself is this. Does Hezbollah have an onus of duty to keep the peace? Or are they allowed to spark a war they know Israel will fight and then pretend to defend the country by launching barrages of unguided missiles over the border; some landing in the sea, others landing in forests etc... some landing on Palestinian Arab children in Nazareth.... Do you regard this as real defence? Unguided missiles firing at phantom targets? Sure if someone is in your backyard, yes, attack them in defence, and Hezbollah did a lot of that, but it doesn't mean it is free from responsibility. It's like a doctor giving a disease to a patient on purpose, and then coming to their aid offering to heal them and putting the blame on someone else, it's deceptive.

So don't go pretending that futile practices of war were really defensive measures because that was a means to an end and not an end in itself!
Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.
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Postby Ant0ni0 » Fri May 30, 2008 8:26 am

Ya cadmus, ma badda 7al ad complication.
The solution is simple.
A strong army, then a resistance would not be needed.
Or The resistance as part of the army.
This is the solution... without me going into shebba farms, prisoners or israeli flyovers or anything else.
But for the first 2 options, ofcource HA needs a government which it can really trust. Not a government working with its sole enemy "israel".

Did u see any other politician or political party try and solve lebanon from this problem other than General Michel Aoun or tayyar al watani?

About the 2006 war, Hezballah might have started it.. for whatever reason..maba3ref
But after a few days, it was known that the war was pre-planned. shou bek ya prince? i thought u would have known this. Ma3ley

Prince Cadmus II wrote:When Israel attacked in 2006, they warned all areas to be cleared well in advance of any attack. They also bombarded in times of minimal road traffic. They did this to minimise civilian losses.



Walla kater khayron...jeyen mn 3end allah...salem la ismo.
bas sou2el zghiir. Inta lebnene walla isra2eli? no offense man
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Postby jieh2008 » Fri May 30, 2008 12:28 pm

don't forget kfar shouba hills,the weapons in palestinians camps and the wali el faqih.
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Postby jieh2008 » Fri May 30, 2008 2:51 pm

> الوكالة الايرانية


وفي موقف لافت وخطير للغاية جاء في وكالة انباء الايرانية شبه الرسمية وفيه ان الموالاة رشحت فؤاد السنيورة لرئاسة الحكومة تمهيداً لاغتياله واستغلال دمائه في الانتخابات المقبلة.


الوكالة الايرانية نسبت هذه التوقعات لمراقبين اتهموا رئيس الهيئة التنفيذية في القوات اللبنانية سمير جعجع بالتحضير لاستغلال دم السنيورة، مشيرة الى ان المايسترو الاميركي لم يحرك أساطيله لحماية السنيورة إبان ما سمته الحركة التأديبية التي قامت بها المعارضة مؤخراً، بل أرادت التضحية به كي يكون هناك سبب للتدخل العسكري وبالتالي التواجد عسكرياً في لبنان.

what do you think about this?, beleive it or not.
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Postby Prince Cadmus II » Fri May 30, 2008 3:26 pm

Ant0ni0 wrote:Ya cadmus, ma badda 7al ad complication.
The solution is simple.
A strong army, then a resistance would not be needed.
Or The resistance as part of the army.
This is the solution... without me going into shebba farms, prisoners or israeli flyovers or anything else.
But for the first 2 options, ofcource HA needs a government which it can really trust. Not a government working with its sole enemy "israel".

Did u see any other politician or political party try and solve lebanon from this problem other than General Michel Aoun or tayyar al watani?

About the 2006 war, Hezballah might have started it.. for whatever reason..maba3ref
But after a few days, it was known that the war was pre-planned. shou bek ya prince? i thought u would have known this. Ma3ley

Prince Cadmus II wrote:When Israel attacked in 2006, they warned all areas to be cleared well in advance of any attack. They also bombarded in times of minimal road traffic. They did this to minimise civilian losses.



Walla kater khayron...jeyen mn 3end allah...salem la ismo.
bas sou2el zghiir. Inta lebnene walla isra2eli? no offense man


You are 100% correct, however I am offended that you have misunderstood me. I don't think it's any of your business whether I am "Lebnene aou Israeli" because by you asking this question, you are completely missing the whole spirit of this conversation: it makes no difference even if I was from China. In the Middle East it is very dangerous to be drawing a false dichotomy between sides: If you are not from Party A, then you MUST be from Party B..... If you are not black, then you MUST be white. If you are not GOOD, then you MUSt be EVIL. These are all false dichotomies and instead of seeking to question the nature of people, perhaps it is better to take the points put forward into consideration and valued on their merits instead.

I actually agree with you totally. Israel from the very beginning had planned a war from many many years ago. How else do you think they had so much intelligence on Hezbollah bases and other strategic targets? They have been monitoring areas for a long time obviously.

But what I am saying is that they keep the door open for Hezbollah by provoking them into throwing the first punch. By throwing the first punch, Hezbollah is acting as the aggressor and Israel immediately gets the international and legal green light (yet again) to go through with its original plan to invade in "defence" that was designed many years ago.

Intelligence or plans of invasion are drawn up by that country years and years and years before anything happens. This is a normal defensive measure seen in many armies all across the world. This kind of intelligence planning is not regarded as cause for war under the Geneva Conventions of War, because it is used by many different armies, especially when they conduct war games to test the capabilities of their services in case of any such invasion.

This is what I am talking about. So if you completely wipe out every chance of them doing this, then they have no justifiable engagement of war.

Antonio please don't think any of my comments here are meant to be any satirical or sabotaging to you or anyone in any way. No side is perfect, and so the aim and spirit of this place is to just at least discuss things and sit back a little and pick out certain problems or things that just don't seem correct, from an impartial and more neutral view than normal.

So if one side is hailed as glorious and God-given, that is where a problem lies because if someone believes in them, then they will never accept even any criticism of them, even if it is constructive, positive criticism.
Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.
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These were the first great founders of the world
Founders of cities and of mighty states"
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Postby haroun » Sat May 31, 2008 8:29 am

Ant0ni0 wrote:
haroun wrote: put the trust in the place it always belonged - the Lebanese government.


lol, hahahahah
ok


Ant0ni0, do you consider yourself Lebanese who care about his country and constitution or an Iranian terrorist? No offense. Lebanon over the years has many treaties with Israel and they protected us well until the rise of terror be it Palestian or hizb fatass. Laugh all you want, but I assure you, until Lebanon rid itself of this cancer it will always be in the crosshair of Israeli guns.

There no such thing as shib3a farms, there is lib3a and nab3a but no shib3a. About your prisoners in Israel, ya3ni howdi are the best of the best, jame3a byerfa3ou erras. I recommend you give them you utmost support because they will return the favor when they are freed.

شمعون: حرام أن يعير احد عون أهمية لأن دواءه ليس عندنا بل في العصفورية
الجوزو: لقد سقط لبنان وسقطت حكوماته، بفضل إرهاب حزب الله
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