Boycott Sfeir Syd08

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Postby jieh2008 » Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:44 am

You call the U.S.A THE ROOT CAUSE FOR ALL GLOBAL PROBLEMS, I DON’T AGREE WITH THAT.
In the wake of sept 11, 2001 attacks, Washington created various foreign policy principles. That Washington has the right to treat countries that harbor or give aid to the so-called terrorist groups as terrorists themselves, which was used to justify the invasion of Afghanistan. Later it came to include additional elements, including the policy of preventive war, which held that Washington should depose foreign regimes that represented a threat to the security of the U.S.A, even if that threat was not immediate (used to justify the invasion of Iraq), a policy of supporting democracy around the world, especially in the middle east, as a strategy for combating the spread of terrorism, and willingness to pursue u.s military interests in a unilateral way. If the U.S.A is being attack, how can they be the cause of the problem?
And I do not believe you are putting Obama and Aoun in the same class of leaders. I have a lot of respect for Aoun and the opposite for Obama. I had to point out that the president of U.S.A (Obama or McCain) will radiate the change in here big time. And about Jieh I hope every day that today is going be better than yesterday and a change I can believe in. I love you man.
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Postby Abou Jamra » Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:12 pm

jieh2008 wrote:You call the U.S.A THE ROOT CAUSE FOR ALL GLOBAL PROBLEMS, I DON’T AGREE WITH THAT.
In the wake of sept 11, 2001 attacks, Washington created various foreign policy principles. That Washington has the right to treat countries that harbor or give aid to the so-called terrorist groups as terrorists themselves, which was used to justify the invasion of Afghanistan. Later it came to include additional elements, including the policy of preventive war, which held that Washington should depose foreign regimes that represented a threat to the security of the U.S.A, even if that threat was not immediate (used to justify the invasion of Iraq), a policy of supporting democracy around the world, especially in the middle east, as a strategy for combating the spread of terrorism, and willingness to pursue u.s military interests in a unilateral way. If the U.S.A is being attack, how can they be the cause of the problem?
And I do not believe you are putting Obama and Aoun in the same class of leaders. I have a lot of respect for Aoun and the opposite for Obama. I had to point out that the president of U.S.A (Obama or McCain) will radiate the change in here big time. And about Jieh I hope every day that today is going be better than yesterday and a change I can believe in. I love you man.


"willingness to pursue u.s military interests in a unilateral way" pretty much sums up my argument. You saved me a whole lot of work. thanks man.

Lets move on to more important issue. Those which concern Jieh as a village, as a global community and we as Jieh people.

i have raised this question before and opened it for discussion. You yourself participated in the conversation which ended up being a critique of the council and the mayor. Lets leave the council aside in this instance and discuss the people. from experience and from conversation and this point was highlighted to me by Adel that simply Jieh people dont care for matters or issues that dont effect them personally or on a personal level.

How does one deal with and counter this mentality? How can you "make" them care for the community and the village?
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"My expectations as always are low" Haroun on Jieh council
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Postby Abou Jamra » Sun Jun 21, 2009 7:44 am

البطريرك صفير: نشكر جميع الذين تفّهموا موقفنا من الانتخابات

Rou7 balet al ba7er.

Franjieh: Give Us Veto Power and Have Your Ministerial Declaration; Sfeir's Positions Are His Own Not Church's

Addressing Sfeir, the Marada leader said the patriarch had "gone too far by casting doubt on the intentions of the Christian opposition."

"I believe he sees us as traitors and that we are selling our homeland to Iran. It took him a long time before he (spoke) of Arabism, we are way ahead," he said.

Franjieh went as far as calling for a separation between Bkirki, the Church and Sfeir, who the MP said was voicing "his personal will."

Franjieh's barrage against Sfeir comes after Hizbullah chief Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah provoked a storm for criticizing the patriarch for warning that "Lebanon's entity and Arab identity will be in danger" should the opposition win the June 7 polls.

The Marada leader said Sfeir had invited denunciation when he "touched on sects and religious ranks and he received the reply."

"Each one of us has the right to self defense," Franjieh said, adding that Bkirki was "harming its stature by placing itself in an unnecessary position."

He also accused former MP Fares Soaid of drafting the patriarch's statement on the eve of the elections.


Enta al Batrak Ya Sleiman
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"My expectations as always are low" Haroun on Jieh council
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Postby Abou Jamra » Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:57 am

"Perhaps there is a question mark on the appointment of those who were defeated in (parliamentary) elections since their reappointment would be against the will of the people," Sfeir said from Bkirki.

Se3et le bado its for the people and at other time its against the will of the people. I say to sfeir again Rou7 balet al ba7r... we have had enough of him. your occupying Bkirki is against the will of the will the people.


الأخبار
لو كنتُ مكان البطريرك... (جان عزيز)


كان حزبياً مارونياً إيديولوجياً عتيقاً، يقرأ المواقف الأخيرة للبطريرك الماروني، ويستمع إلى كلام الأمين العام لحزب الله في يوم القدس. قبل أن يطلق العنان لإسقاطه الشخصي المتخيّل: لو كنتُ مكان البطريرك...
ليس الحزبيّ من المنتمين «سياسياً» إلى طائفته، ولا إلى طائفة ما. فهو خرج منذ زمن من حزبيته إلى نطاق أوسع. لكنه ابن بيئة تعرف وجدان بكركي، وتحفظ هواجسه وتجيد لغته. لذلك كان قادراً على صوغ ذلك الإسقاط بسهولة، بسلاسة، بطلاقة المقتنع، أو حتى «المؤمن».
لو كنتُ محل البطريرك، لأعلنتُ فوراً، من دون تردد، تأييدي الكامل لكل حرف قاله نصر الله.

أصلاً، وفق منطق بكركي وأهل بكركي و«مخاوفها» و«ضماناتها»، كيف يمكن فهم المشهد السياسي في كامل منطقتنا اليوم؟ إنه بكل بساطة استمرار، بل تطور لافت ومفصلي للصراع العربي ـــــ الإسرائيلي. وفي هذا الصراع ثمّة تطوران أساسيان: الأول هو تحوّل قسم من أنظمة المنطقة إلى تبنّي وجهة النظر الأميركية في الصراع. والتطور الثاني هو تمكّن القسم الآخر الممانع والمقاوم، من تحقيق ما هو أبعد من توازن الرعب مع إسرائيل، وصولاً إلى تسجيل النقاط في المعركة معها.
يستدرك منهجياً بالقول: لست من دُعاة هذا الواقع القائم، لكن قراءته موضوعياً تفرض الملاحظة أن ثمّة تنافساً يعيشه الشرق الأوسط بين حالتين: سُنّية وشيعية، على قيادة المنطقة وزعامتها، انطلاقاً من مصير الصراع مع إسرائيل بالذات. الحالة السّنية، وهي حالة أنظمة لا شعوب، تراهن على ربح المواجهة عبر التسوية، برعاية أميركية، لتصير بعدها القوة الإقليمية العظمى. فيما الحالة الشيعية، شعوباً وأنظمة، اختارت طريق المواجهة.

ماذا يفعل البطريرك وسط هذه الدوامة؟ عملياً لا شيء. لا بل يرتب على جماعته و«كيانه» أخطاراً وسلبيات. فهو يبدو في مواقفه، ملحقاً لمعسكر التسوية، مستتبعاً مع فريقه الداخلي لا غير. وهو في هذا النطاق الضيّق، لم يكوّن محوراً دولياً، ولا محوراً مؤثراً، ولا حتى محطة أخذ رأي أو استئناس بخاطر، من الفريق الداخلي ـــــ الإقليمي ـــــ الدولي، الذي يمثّل خيار التسوية.

خيار نصر الله يلتزم قضية محقة، ويوفّر حلاً عادلاً للاجئين ويُبقي خط التماس حيث يجب
في المقابل، ثمّة خيار آخر، هو خيار المواجهة. وهو لا يتطلب من البطريرك شيئاً، ولا يطلب منه أي التزام أو جهد أو ثمن. ثمّة خيار آخر، يتسم بعوامل ثلاثة: أولاً مناصرته قضية محقة، هي القضية الفلسطينية. وهي مسألة أجمعت أدبيات الكنيسة العالمية على تأييدها ودعمها. ثانياً، سعي هذا الخيار إلى إيجاد حل عادل للاجئين الفلسطينيين المقيمين في لبنان. وهو أمر مثّل تاريخياً مطلباً وهاجساً «كيانياً» لأهل بكركي. ثالثاً، يوفّر هذا الخيار حصانة «قومية» لجماعة البطريرك، كما إبقاءً لخطوط التماس الفعلية عند الحدود الدولية الجنوبية للبنان، لا في الداخل اللبناني، بين سُنّة وشيعة، أو بين المسيحيين وأي منهما، أو في الداخل المسيحي نفسه، كما بلغت الحال مراراً وعاشها البطريرك وعانى وعجز...

مقابل ذلك كله، ماذا يفعل سيّد الصرح؟ لا ينفكّ يُلحّ في السؤال عن سلاح حزب الله، فيما الكل من حوله انكفأ عن هذا السؤال، لحسابات، إمّا اقتناعية عامة، أو مصلحية خاصة.
هذا هو الخيار الصائب الوحيد لسيّد بكركي، إذا أراد مجانبة الكارثة. الباقي أوهام، أو قصور في النظر، أو قصر في النفس. خيار وحيد على خلفية استراتيجية بعيدة المدى قوامها ركيزتان: أولاً اندماج المسيحيين في محيطهم المشرقي، وخروجهم من عقدة «تغرّبهم»، وبالتالي غربتهم، سبيلاً إلى الهجرة النهائية. وثانياً الرهان على انبلاج مناخ الديموقراطية الحقيقية في الفكر السياسي المتحكّم في شعوب المنطقة. في المقابل، ماذا يفعل البطريرك؟ يندفع أكثر فأكثر نحو «التغرّب»، خلافاً للإرشاد الرسولي، ويدعو إلى ديموقراطية الأكثرية والأقلية، خلافاً لمنطق أهله الخاص.
لماذا لا تبلغ البطريرك مباشرة هذا الرأي؟ قطعت الأمل من زيارة بكركي منذ زمن، يجيب صاحبه. لكن هذا الكلام يجب أن يقال للبطريرك، وأن يناقش معه، إذا كان يسمع ويناقش.
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"My expectations as always are low" Haroun on Jieh council
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Postby haroun » Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:56 am

It's a great thing that people like this Aziz are not welcomed in Bkirki, and even better he's not in the patriach seat. If Jean Aziz feels like that, he should became a Shiite or acquire Iranian citizenship.

Batrak Sfeir shouldn't care to listen to khawarej like him bought and owned by hizbfatass or others from the Aounieh Aoumieh Sourieh iranieh falastinieh hodgepodge.

شمعون: حرام أن يعير احد عون أهمية لأن دواءه ليس عندنا بل في العصفورية
الجوزو: لقد سقط لبنان وسقطت حكوماته، بفضل إرهاب حزب الله
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Postby jieh2008 » Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:20 pm

I think Sayyedna should listen to the majority of Maronite who voted for the other side that is if we are going to follow the same principle that Sayyedna is following, which bring me to remind our humble few readers that Aoun’s Maronite members of parliament indisputably exceed any other Maronites alliance. If people spoke at least Sayyedna should listen if it is not outright take that in consideration . It is not that Bassil wants his seat back in parliament,.. he lost period.,.. the people spoke period.,. Well, what is the problem ?. Hmmm, because he lost in the election he should not be a minister, hmmm …according to which law ?.. Where is it written?. Every alliance (kitleh) chooses their ministers, why is this does not apply to Bassil and avoid the automatic blowback rage from the majority (elected members) of Maronites?. As a matter of facts, the Maronite majority elelected members (kitleh) of Aoun in parliament should name all the Maronite ministers in the government that is if we don’t want to hurt the feeling of the voters and be “against the will of the people,".
Finally, I think we should pray to our Sayyiadet El Jieh to intercede to guard our Sayyedna and to help him shepherd his flock and unifying and strengthening the Maronite church.
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Postby haroun » Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:27 am

Prayers are good, I think if anyone is in dire need for them it's Aoun. He believes he's the most powerful man in Lebanon and the world over (closer to be a god than man), he wants his son.. in law a minister or there will never be a government, he's allied himself with a terrorist organization called Hizballa, he visits countries accused of sponsoring terrorism and befriend their leaders, he sends his thugs and militia to scare sayyedna at his home in Bkirki and toss him in the air like a doll, and he swears and threaten everyone who doesn’t agree with him. Please spare this “majority of Maronite supports him...” and "will of the people" lines. I can never imagine a single Maronite or Lebanese supporting what this guy is promoting day after day. Yes he won an election, but these people who voted for him were and some still hypnotized.

Historically, the PM has the right to veto anyone from joining his government. And jubran Hassan basil and his maitre should respect that.

شمعون: حرام أن يعير احد عون أهمية لأن دواءه ليس عندنا بل في العصفورية
الجوزو: لقد سقط لبنان وسقطت حكوماته، بفضل إرهاب حزب الله
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Postby jieh2008 » Sat Sep 26, 2009 11:50 am

Haroun I know you can not stand Aoun but please be fair-minded.
I believe the truth is more important than particular political goals. When I make claims, I’m not speaking out of political distortion but out of honest truth. And I want to be able to evaluate the claims of other too. I'm still not exactly sure what to make of your answer …(hypnotized) what is that?., but I will give you the benefit of the doubt and let it go.
My friend you keep bashing and mischaracterizing the Maronite supporters of Aoun as if they were a common enemy of Bkerki which is far from the truth . Remember the videotape showing your ally Jumblatt contemptuously ridiculing Geagea with an anti-Maronite slur.
Anyway, why don’t you look at the reason of contention which was the refusal of Hariri and Jumblatt to amend an occupation-era electoral law designed to disenfranchise (did you pay attention here) disenfranchise Christian voters by embedding most of them in large majority Muslim districts. In this way, both had come to control large blocs of Christian (in Beirut , Mount Lebanon, and north ). They were perfectly willing to exchange some of these seats for the loyalty of Christian like LF, Phalange party, and Qornet Shehwan. Aoun refused to take orders from both, wagering (correctly) (yes)…( correctly) that he could win far more seats in head to head competition with Hariri and Jumblatt (not against Bkerki) than they were willing to offer. And there was no Hezbollah, Aoumieh, Sourieh or anybody else then. He won in 2005 and he won again with more pure (majority) Maronite seats in 2009 “.
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Postby haroun » Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:52 am

Truth? Think about it, people in full conscience don’t support someone who turns their country into missile base for Iran, or who welcomes the Syrians and pretend that nothing less than normal happens in the past 30 years or someone who shakes the hands of the oppressors and refuses to discuss and solve outstanding issues with his compatriots. I am not bashing or underestimating those who voted for Aoun, but I am having hard time making sense of their choices.

As far as I am concerned Aoun is a disaster. The Christians as a whole would have been much better off without his presence. Many goals they set forth since independence were coming true in 1995 and suddenly disappeared with this generalissimo’s appearance. He became a useful tool in the hands of his powerful allies to turn the clock back and bring doubts to the survival of the country and the future of the Christian community.

شمعون: حرام أن يعير احد عون أهمية لأن دواءه ليس عندنا بل في العصفورية
الجوزو: لقد سقط لبنان وسقطت حكوماته، بفضل إرهاب حزب الله
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Postby jieh2008 » Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:29 am

{“We as Christians community with (full conscience ) unease with the Hariri and his aunt-Salafi partnership and their call for the support of the naturalization of Lebanon's Palestinian refugees, their input in writing the Taef accord and their hatred for us. Haroun; do you remember the Danish newspaper's publication of cartoons about Prophet Muhammad , when Hariri paid and provided transportation for the Salafis to attend a government-licensed demonstration in Beirut. Excited about hating us, those Salafis went on a rampage, setting fire to the Danish embassy and other Christians buildings and houses and vandalizing two nearby churches. Please remind me of an incident that your friends in Hezbollah or anyone of their supporters touch a church. (this is why Aoun’s FPM remains the country's most popular Christian political party in spite of its political alliance with Hezbollah or shaking hands with (murderers and oppressors)( Siniora shook the same hands lately in Saudi Arabia and the rest of your allies will fellow soon). The widespread perception that Hariri is friendly to the Salafi preachers is therefore a major liability for him, you, and us ( that is the truth), and as a reminder one of our religious leader warn us that Hariri is "working on dividing rather than uniting the country“.}. I pray that Hariri will prove him wrong for the sake of my Lebanon.
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Postby haroun » Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:42 pm

“WE”? I don’t think all the Christian communities share your view. Whatever percentage your “we” represents, they are blindly and unconsciously following an overzealous, self promoting, second-rate general whose principles and alliances are in a perpetual state of change.

If the Palestinians and their naturalization were his main issue why didn’t he join the fight in the war and finish them once and for all? Why did he turn his guns and his state sponsored militia against those who were fighting them? Personally, I don’t think naturalizing the Palestinians is a big deal, I don’t think it’s going to alter the status quo or the one that existed and will continue for the next 100 years. Their numbers don’t add or subtract from ours as we still r going to have the same number of representatives. The priority right now should be fatass and his gang.

25000+ heavily armed terrorists backed by 40K Iranian missiles and unilimited funds pose more threats than couple thousand unorganized outlaws who all they could do is burn a building before being chased away or arrested.

God Bless our religious leaders and we yearn for the day when their opinions are respected.

شمعون: حرام أن يعير احد عون أهمية لأن دواءه ليس عندنا بل في العصفورية
الجوزو: لقد سقط لبنان وسقطت حكوماته، بفضل إرهاب حزب الله
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Postby jieh2008 » Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:29 am

“{ Haroun; there has been unprecedented consensus shared by most Lebanese communities, the ( we) (Whatever percentage “we” represents) and by leaders in government and in the opposition, both in here and abroad, has been the rejection of permanent settlement of the Palestinians in Lebanon (not your friend Aoun only). Yes most Lebanese communities (except by some people like you and the Wahhabies like Jouzou).
Batrak Sfeir said (not your hero Aoun) :" Lebanon is too small to absorb such a large number (350,000) of Palestinians. It is already too small for the Lebanese themselves and that is why so many are emigrating " He added "besides we have a document that says the Palestinians themselves do not want to remain in Lebanon”
Abbas said (not your sweetheart Aoun) "We would never accept any settlement that leads to naturalizing Palestinians in Lebanon," "We would not accept any settlements that would lead to a demographic change in Lebanon.”
You are arguing against our bless Batrak opinion big time , and it looks to me , you are damn proud of it “}.
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Postby haroun » Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:20 pm


بطريرك الكلام
هل بتّم تدركون لم كانت كل الهجمات على رأس الكنيسة المارونية البطريرك الكاردينال مار نصرالله بطرس صفير؟ إنه سيد بكركي، الصخرة التي بني عليها لبنان.
لا تهمه عواصف أو أعاصير الهجمات ولا النصال التي تطلق من هنا وهناك وهنالك. كلها ليست أكثر زوابع في فنجان حكمته وصلابته. والنصال كلها تتكسّر على الصخور تحت أقدام بكركي.
مجد لبنان أعطي له ولكل أسلافه القديسين... فهل يساوم؟
وكما في كل مرة يقول كلمته... ولا يمشي. يبقى حاملا صليبه، صليب لبنان، وشامخا شموخ أرزه، لا يعير اهتماما لأبواق العملاء والمتاجرين ولا تزعزعه سهام الحاقدين.
قال: "إن ثمة من في الداخل يستقوي بالخارج للحصول على مكاسب نيابية او وزارية". وأضاف غبطته: "ان فريق 14 آذار كان يجب ان يستلم الحكم بعد فوزه في الانتخابات النيابية الاخيرة". وأعلن ان "السلاح والديمقراطية لا يتفقان كما ان الاكثرية والاقلية لا يمكن ان تلتقيا في حكومة واحدة".

وبالفم الملآن أكد أن "حزب الله يعمل لمصلحة ايران اكثر مما يعمل لمصلحة لبنان".

شمعون: حرام أن يعير احد عون أهمية لأن دواءه ليس عندنا بل في العصفورية
الجوزو: لقد سقط لبنان وسقطت حكوماته، بفضل إرهاب حزب الله
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Postby jieh2008 » Sun Nov 01, 2009 3:29 pm

I agree with you about the Batraks , they are our shepherds, leaders and masters in theology and in politics (it is no brainer here). in one of our saydnah speeches he said: be one, and Lebanon will be strong. Be one, and Lebanon will be steadfast, sovereign, free, and independent). That is what I like to see , being one, and seeing the Batrak working on advocating free press and protecting us from abuse, sense of hopelessness , discrimination and sectarian imbalances and (being one).
After this being said, let me state my humble simple opinion about few things.
First : “on the comment about the political favors and their loyalty to outsiders” I agree, because I remember that saydnah said in previous occasion,: “we Lebanese should never be tools in the hands of others“. My opinion is “ let he who is without sin cast the first stone”. well , who are those others and outsiders?. Are they the Syrians (Aoumieh, Baathieh, Amal , Franjieh, Saikah, Michael Murr groups ect.), Iranians(Hezbollah), Egyptians (Nasserieh, Jamaah Islamieh, Jouzou, Seniora groups ect.) British, American, Russian, French , Palestinian , Lybian, Syrian, Iranian ( druze), French ( kataeb) or your uncle Sam (LF, Armenian ) ect.. or are they the Wahhabies (Harri groups, fateh el Islam and other salafis)ect.. and their 100s of millions of dollars they spent on the last elections. “
Second: on the comment about the weapons and democracy, I agree that all weapons should be taken away from whoever is not a Lebanese wherever they are in Lebanon, militias and any Lebanese party should have access to weapon through training by the government . Since we call our country Switzerland of the east, why don’t we follow that country example, Switzerland issues every household a gun! The government trains every adult they issue a rifle. They have the lowest gun related crime rate of civilized country in the world.
Note : Hezbollah met with interior minister ziyad baroud lately to ask that the state should extend its control over the southern suburbs( dahieh) and reinforce its presence there.
My question is: are the Palestinian willing to meet minister Baroud to ask him to extend the state controls over their camps?.
Third: about forming the government; They are the majority and they can name the prime minister (that is it), the minority can’t, but if they want to govern in Lebanon they have to form a consensus cabinet and agree on a platform the government need to accomplish before even they name the names and their portfolios. And from our experience the platform sometime is more important than the names.

And yes : the glory of Lebanon given to him.
jieh2008
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Postby haroun » Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:07 am

The Glory of Lebanon is given to him indeed.

The issue is not Sayyedna, he never was! As far as I am concerned, he’s entitled to his opinion and to voice the concern of his people.

What did the $100 millions of Dollars buy in the last election? Beside bringing few desperados to vote in their districts, most of it went to promote the terrorists agenda and paint a deceiving picture of the Islamo-fascist activities.

It’s obvious that the source of the problems in Lebanon is Syria and Iran; the other countries you named don’t even come close. They’re mentioned mostly to cover for the neck-deep involvement of the first two. I don’t believe for a second that France and the US have an interest supporting kataeb or the LF... Countries like that don’t need proxies to preserve their interests. If for some reason they need Lebanon they can send one or two garrisons wa 3alika assalam.

About your second point, if one militia is allowed to exist, then the government authority is compromised, in this case, whoever wants a militias should be allowed for form one, if one militia is armed, it’s only fair that the others be armed and trained to do what they need to do. I will never trust fatsass or his terrorists to protect me. If they continue to arm and train, then everyone else should be equally armed and trained - Basic self preservation. I disagree with you on the government training every adults in the art of warfare, war these days is a science and it requires professionals like every other job. Most of the time unskilled fighters turn into a huge liability and provide no value to the defense of their country. besides, lebanon's threats are 99.9% internal. I hope you don’t fall for the terrorists when they ask the government to extend its control over the south, the government knows better what to do and doesn’t need dictation, it sounds like they want someone to give them cover while they engage in malice.

Funny that you talk about the Palestinians, most of those causing trouble are gangsters and proxies for HA, Iran and Syria. The answer to your question is no, they will never disarm voluntarily. The only way to deal with them is a la tal az za3tar.

I agree with your last point, and I take it a little further wishing that the majority had already formed a government and sent those hard heads in the opposition to some Saharan country to pound hot sand.

شمعون: حرام أن يعير احد عون أهمية لأن دواءه ليس عندنا بل في العصفورية
الجوزو: لقد سقط لبنان وسقطت حكوماته، بفضل إرهاب حزب الله
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haroun
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