Reform the maronite church

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Reform the maronite church

Postby Abou Jamra » Thu May 10, 2007 3:02 pm

Join me in signing this petition. The Batrak must go and the Maronite church needs to be reformed.


http://maronite.epetitions.net/

To: THE VATICAN

Re: PETITION FOR FAIRNESS AND REFORM IN THE POLITICAL INVOLVEMENT OF THE MARONITE CHURCH IN LEBANON

We, the undersigned, are Lebanese Maronites who are urging the leadership of the Roman Catholic Church to restore fairness and reform in the political involvement of the Maronite Church of Lebanon in the Lebanese internal affairs.

Over the past few years, the Maronite Church of Lebanon, represented by its Patriarch Mar Nisrallah Boutros Sfeir and the Council of Maronite Bishops, has lost touch with the realities of the political dynamics in the Christian Maronite community. Since the late 1980’s, the Patriarch Sfeir and the Council of Bishops have not maintained a neutral position in the internal Maronite politics, but rather implicitly (and at times explicitly) favoured a group of ex-warlords over other political groups.

During the last parliamentary elections of 2005, the Lebanese Maronites overwhelmingly voted for the moderate Free Patriot Movement party giving it over 70% of Christian Maronite votes. Yet, Patriarch Sfeir and the Council of Bishops refused to acknowledge the choice of the Maronite community, and remained vocal in their one-sided political positions that interfere in all aspects of the Lebanese internal politics, completely contradicting and ignoring the choice of the Christian Maronites. Even when Maronites call for early elections to settle the issue of political representation, Patriarch Sfeir and the Council of Bishops insist on interfering and siding against the choice of the majority of Maronites, and favouring ex-warlords and politicians who were popular for their collaboration with the Syrian occupation in Lebanon.

We, Lebanese Maronites urge the leadership of the Roman Catholic Church to interfere with the Lebanese Maronite Church in order to ensure it focuses on its religious and spiritual role in the Maronite community of Lebanon. We expect from our church inspiration and religious guidance rather than forcing its political views against the wishes of its own parish. The Maronite community is growing increasingly frustrated as the behaviour of its Patriarch is continuously undermining its aspirations and objectives of a unified democratic country where all the Lebanese live freely and equally.

We trust in your wisdom and your understanding of our sensitive situation, and pray for your expedited and serious intervention. May God bless you and bless our beloved country.
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Postby haroun » Fri May 11, 2007 2:50 am

The Maronite Church is infallible and we like it just the way it is thank you!. If Aoun and his followers don't like it, he should start his own church al la Jim Jones or become a Mullah. I am sure his orange flock will follow.

BTW why don't you guys start petitions to remove La7oos and disarm fatass militia?

شمعون: حرام أن يعير احد عون أهمية لأن دواءه ليس عندنا بل في العصفورية
الجوزو: لقد سقط لبنان وسقطت حكوماته، بفضل إرهاب حزب الله
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Postby Prince Cadmus II » Fri May 11, 2007 5:34 am

The Maronite Church is more infallible than Rome herself!
Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.
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These were the first great founders of the world
Founders of cities and of mighty states"
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Postby danyhr » Fri May 11, 2007 11:14 am

AJ find a hobby.
In much of your talking, thinking is half murdered - GKG.
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Postby Charbel » Fri May 11, 2007 1:16 pm

This Aoun thing is becoming an unhealthy obsession....

I prefer advice and guidance from an institution thats been going strongly for a couple of millenia than some wanna be politicians be they aoun, geagea, fastass or senorita.

These online petitions wouldnt change the sauce on a bigmac let alone the cardinals of one of the world oldest catholic religions.

Your best bet is to set up a camp at the Vatican this time.

I think the pope has bigger issues to deal with. like Condoms and Abortions.
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Postby Abou Jamra » Fri May 11, 2007 6:26 pm

haroun wrote:BTW why don't you guys start petitions to remove La7oos and disarm fatass militia?



Leave him alone the guy only has 164 days left and he will step aside. BTW i cant beleive you are asking me this question.

What happended to JaaJaa's promise to remove him in one month?

What happened to Walid Eido's and Jumblatt's million man march on Baabda?

Why was Batrak visiting him earlier today after Lahoud deliberatly ignored him on Christmas and Easter?

Why dont you guys start a petition to remove him? Then again do you really want to remove him?

Haroun by requesting the FPM to launch a campaign against Lahoud, proves that you guys are incapable of doing anything without us.

As for disarming HA i dont think a petition is required to achieve that. We have an MOU with HA. Disarming them is not as simple as signing a petition, it's a process.

Prince Cadmus II wrote:The Maronite Church is more infallible than Rome herself!


Neither is infallible, both have their faults.

danyhr wrote:AJ find a hobby.


I tried, but i am shocking ballet dancing. Untill i find another you guys have to put up with me here.

Charbel wrote:I think the pope has bigger issues to deal with. like Condoms and Abortions.


Perfect Charboula. As Jesus said. "Give to caesar what belongs to caesar and give to God what belongs to God". The Presidency is not God's it is for the Lebanese people.
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Postby Prince Cadmus II » Fri May 11, 2007 11:28 pm

Caesar was a Roman ruler, he was neither Lebanese, nor did he have a religion.

Lebanon is not the ancient Roman Empire. It is neither Roman, nor is it an empire.

Lebanon is a country where the power is shared amongst different sects.
Don't take Biblical quotes out of context and make your own meaning from them AJ.

In fact, there is no other sect in Lebanon which is more politically involved than the Maronite Catholic Church. The Maronite Church is infallible.
Leaders from all sects in Lebanon always meet with the Maronite patriarch to discuss events and ideas with him.

You cannot blame the Maronite church for failures of everyday people at the bottom of the social pyramid. If you can't produce a power wielding man from the grassroots level, thats where you should go and blame all these people's mothers for not raising a Maronite ruler to lead the nation.

It is a real cheap-shot to just look right up to the top and blame the ruling elite for the problems that originated down the bottom of the pyramid.

How about taking blame for your own actions instead of redirecting blame and pointing the finger? But of course insecure people would never do that. Those who sign that petition are such people.
Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.
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These were the first great founders of the world
Founders of cities and of mighty states"
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Postby Charbel » Sat May 12, 2007 12:07 am

Prince Cadmus II wrote: The Maronite Church is infallible.


I think Ive heard that being said 3 times in this thread. And i hink we have to be carefull. The maronite church (leaders) are not infallible.

Infallibility refers to the pope and only when the pope give "orders" on faith. Nothing else.

When Sfier talks politics, his talking opinion. He could be rightt or could be wrong. Same with the Pope.

No one is infallible when they are talking lebanese politics. Even God with all his glory is confused and got no idea how lebanese politics and politicians work.
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Postby haroun » Sat May 12, 2007 12:44 am

Abou Jamra wrote:Why was Batrak visiting him earlier today after Lahoud deliberatly ignored him on Christmas and Easter?


To give him:
رسائل واضحة وتنبيه شديد اللهجة: حذار الحكومة الثانية

and warn him that the only thing he could do from here on is pack, and if he does anything stupid like form a second gov or the likes, he'll will close all the roads to heaven in his face and show him hell right here on earth starting now.


Charbel,
If you open the door to doubt the Batrak in one thing, what prevents someone from doubting him in everything?

شمعون: حرام أن يعير احد عون أهمية لأن دواءه ليس عندنا بل في العصفورية
الجوزو: لقد سقط لبنان وسقطت حكوماته، بفضل إرهاب حزب الله
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Postby Charbel » Sat May 12, 2007 4:45 am

haroun wrote:If you open the door to doubt the Batrak in one thing, what prevents someone from doubting him in everything?


Thats not the point and that a case of each persons personal opinion.

The point is that infallibily does not apply to the Patriarch and especially when his talking politics.
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Postby Prince Cadmus II » Sat May 12, 2007 5:03 am

I'm going to start a petition recognising the Maronite Church as infallible.

The Maronite Church stems from the Roman Catholic church of which authority was handed to via Saint Peter whose keys to the kingdom of Heaven were given to by Jesus.

Therefore the Maronite Church is infallible.

Amen.
Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.
"Upon the Tsurian sea the people live who style themselves Phoenicians...
These were the first great founders of the world
Founders of cities and of mighty states"
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Postby Charbel » Sat May 12, 2007 11:57 am

Your gonna start camping at the vatican too?
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Postby Prince Cadmus II » Mon May 14, 2007 1:14 am

The Vatican will endorse it and recognise it as perpetually the inherited influence that originally stems from it, thus confirming its legitimacy. :-p
Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.
"Upon the Tsurian sea the people live who style themselves Phoenicians...
These were the first great founders of the world
Founders of cities and of mighty states"
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