Circus Circus!

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Circus Circus!

Postby haroun » Sat Jul 05, 2008 2:28 pm

While Patriarch Sfeir is yet on another historical trip. On 7/5/08, Aoun used the occasion to convene what he calls a "Christian leadership" conference to show his skills at juggling, magic and clowning. Here is the list of the greats who enjoyed the show:

دولة الرئيس العماد ميشال عون
دولة الرئيس ايلي الفرزلي
الوزير السابق سليمان فرنجية
الوزير السابق الياس سكاف
الوزير السابق فارس بويز
الوزير السابق ميشال سماحة
الوزير السابق كريم بقرادوني
الوزير السابق البير منصور
الوزير السابق الياس سابا
الوزير السابق سيبوه هوفنانيان
الوزير السابق اسطفان الدويهي

رئيس حزب الطاشناك هوفيك مختاريان
رئيس حزب التضامن اميل رحمه
جينا حبيقة
نائب رئيس الحزب الديموقراطي زياد الشويري
رئيس الاتحاد من أجل لبنان مسعود الأشقر
رئيس قدامى القوات ايلي أسود
أمين سر التنظيم عباد زوين

الوزير السابق النائب ادكار معلوف
النائب فريد الخازن
النائب وليد خوري
النائب جيلبرت زوين
النائب ابراهيم كنعان
النائب نبيل نقولا
النائب غسان مخيبر
النائب شامل موزايا
النائب كميل خوري
النائب السابق جبران طوق
النائب السابق اميل لحود

رئيس تجمع الرابطات المسيحية حبيب افرام
رئيس الاتحاد العمالي العام غسان غصن
نائب رئيس الكتائب السابق رشاد سلامه
نقيب المحامين السابق شكيب قرطباوي
نقيب الاطباء السابق ماريو عون
نقيب الاطباء السابق فايق يونس

اللواء نديم لطيف
الاستاد جبران باسيل
الاستاد جان عزيز
الاستاد كابي جبرايل
الاستاد جان حواط
الفنان غسان الرحباني
الفنان الياس الرحباني
رئيس جمعية دعم المعتقلين غازي عاد

ما شاء الله ....كلهم عليهم القيمة ، أكبر واحد فيهم حقه في أيام الغلاء فرنك .

شمعون: حرام أن يعير احد عون أهمية لأن دواءه ليس عندنا بل في العصفورية
الجوزو: لقد سقط لبنان وسقطت حكوماته، بفضل إرهاب حزب الله
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Re: Circus Circus!

Postby jieh2008 » Sun Jul 06, 2008 1:25 am

haroun wrote:While Patriarch Sfeir is yet on another historical trip. On 7/5/08, Aoun used the occasion to convene what he calls a "Christian leadership" conference to show his skills at juggling, magic and clowning. Here is the list of the greats who enjoyed the show:

دولة الرئيس العماد ميشال عون
دولة الرئيس ايلي الفرزلي
الوزير السابق سليمان فرنجية
الوزير السابق الياس سكاف
الوزير السابق فارس بويز
الوزير السابق ميشال سماحة
الوزير السابق كريم بقرادوني
الوزير السابق البير منصور
الوزير السابق الياس سابا
الوزير السابق سيبوه هوفنانيان
الوزير السابق اسطفان الدويهي

رئيس حزب الطاشناك هوفيك مختاريان
رئيس حزب التضامن اميل رحمه
جينا حبيقة
نائب رئيس الحزب الديموقراطي زياد الشويري
رئيس الاتحاد من أجل لبنان مسعود الأشقر
رئيس قدامى القوات ايلي أسود
أمين سر التنظيم عباد زوين

الوزير السابق النائب ادكار معلوف
النائب فريد الخازن
النائب وليد خوري
النائب جيلبرت زوين
النائب ابراهيم كنعان
النائب نبيل نقولا
النائب غسان مخيبر
النائب شامل موزايا
النائب كميل خوري
النائب السابق جبران طوق
النائب السابق اميل لحود

رئيس تجمع الرابطات المسيحية حبيب افرام
رئيس الاتحاد العمالي العام غسان غصن
نائب رئيس الكتائب السابق رشاد سلامه
نقيب المحامين السابق شكيب قرطباوي
نقيب الاطباء السابق ماريو عون
نقيب الاطباء السابق فايق يونس

اللواء نديم لطيف
الاستاد جبران باسيل
الاستاد جان عزيز
الاستاد كابي جبرايل
الاستاد جان حواط
الفنان غسان الرحباني
الفنان الياس الرحباني
رئيس جمعية دعم المعتقلين غازي عاد

ما شاء الله ....كلهم عليهم القيمة ، أكبر واحد فيهم حقه في أيام الغلاء فرنك .


Your possessive state of mind is a magnet for all kinds of trouble and credibility, being critical, unforgiving does not radiate good to your physical health. And yes go Mc Cain.
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Postby haroun » Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:27 am

2k8,
You recall the Lebanese saying: ”kol lee mann to3asher akol laka mann 2ant” With about ¾ the list classified as Syrian agents that makes the organizers Syrian agents. You question my credibility but my feelings and beliefs are real and true.

Many of us have an idea how things should be, and can tell right from wrong. Today I find it difficult to turn my head away when the wrong is so obvious. As PrinceCadmus II once alluded, venting is healthy.

شمعون: حرام أن يعير احد عون أهمية لأن دواءه ليس عندنا بل في العصفورية
الجوزو: لقد سقط لبنان وسقطت حكوماته، بفضل إرهاب حزب الله
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Postby Abou Jamra » Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:34 pm

Is it wrong to have strong christian front? Karim Pakradoni launched this initiative. He also invited M14 christians to participate... they refused. A day later Karim officially resigned from the Phalange party.


haroun wrote:
Many of us have an idea how things should be, and can tell right from wrong.



List the wrongs.
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Postby haroun » Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:18 am

Abou Jamra wrote:Is it wrong to have strong christian front? Karim Pakradoni launched this initiative. He also invited M14 christians to participate... they refused. A day later Karim officially resigned from the Phalange party.

List the wrongs.


Now you're telling me that Aoun values the ideas of Pakradouni? I hope Aoun makes him a board member of the FPM to change it like he did the Kataeb.

You asked for a list the wrong? you probably know more than me but for a starter i like to mention:

Took a stance against the head of the Maronite church
Took a stance against the west and western values
Delayed the formation of the gov
Delayed the election of a president
Promoted hatred within the Christian community when he approved the excavation of imaginary mass graves
Publicly supports Syria, the main suspect in the killing a prime minister and many other VIPs.
Supported by current Syrian allies in Lebanon who promoted Syria’s interests during its 30 years occupation of Lebanon.
Allies himself with terrorists who believe in the supremacy of Islamic laws over the constitution.
Supports weapons outside government control
Caused the bankruptcy of hundreds of Lebanese businesses.
Participated in shutting downtown after Hizb fatass revolted against the government after it voted to approved the International Tribunal
Made up false allegation that the LF is responsible for the death of Frangieh and Chamoun. When it’s a well know fact that the LF didn’t exist at the time Frangieh was eliminated and Dory Chamoun and the leadership of the PNL deny the LF has anything to do with Dany’s murder.
Uses the plight of the displaced for cheap shot and score points.

شمعون: حرام أن يعير احد عون أهمية لأن دواءه ليس عندنا بل في العصفورية
الجوزو: لقد سقط لبنان وسقطت حكوماته، بفضل إرهاب حزب الله
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Postby Abou Jamra » Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:21 pm

Took a stance against the head of the Maronite church


Which stance was that? Did he ever oppose church doctrine? Publish his own version on the 10 commandments? Reword the Our Father and Hail Mary? Work towards abolishing Good Friday? NO. Sfeir commentary and opinion on political matters is not gospel, it wasn’t only GMA who took a stance against it but the majority of the Christians also. I can tell you no one is to blame but sfeir himself.

2k8 said it best

The batrak is aware that sections of his Maronite community were torn by difference of opinions. Why he does not work on unanimity first among his children and reconcile influential political figures. Do you remember the bible story about the lost sheep.?. Our batrak as a good shepherd should seek the lost one.


I just got back from a poker game at the often deserted jieh club house. Most the boys there all good Christian maronites had no idea Sfeir was hosting a rally at Parramatta stadium (that’s what it is a rally not a mass) they boys decided to have a poker game on Sunday rather than attend the Mareonite Youth Day. Why doesn’t Sfeir keep his political opinion to him self and focus on more important issues that concern him as a religious figure. Sfeir must resign, he must step down. Send him up to cairns to play golf and enjoy a glass of wine at the Hunter Valley, yrou7 yerte7 wa yraye7na.


Took a stance against the west and western values


WTF?? Please go in detail. FPMrs are perhaps the only ones who are open minded in regards to adopting western values… here we might have different opinion as to what those values you are refering to as. You might be thinking freedom of speech blah blah blah well we as FPMers don’t need lessons about that as for 15 years we were the only people opposing oppression and occupation. The western values I have defined as issues relating same sex marriages and homosexuality etc... The FPM is always at the forefront in the battle for minority rights.

We took a stance against western imperialism not western values. Besides the orient doesn’t need occidental values we have plenty of our own :lol:


Delayed the formation of the gov

WTF

Dude I cant believe you wrote this on the day which the change and reform block and the rest of the opposition handed the names of its ministers to saniora.

Haroun get real man. The members on this forum are an educated bunch, stop this propaganda campaign of yours. All that was in the dark is been brought to light. We know who is stalling and delaying.

Delayed the election of a president


Yes and look at the out come and the benefits. Every decision taken by GMA is a calculated measure. Political Games theory and GMA is the Champ the rest are playing checkers and GMA is playing Chess. Tararatata GE NE RAL.


Promoted hatred within the Christian community when he approved the excavation of imaginary mass graves


The only hate came from those responsible for the mass killings and the mass graves. Can you deny JaaJaa’s and the Lebanese forces Holocaust? Can you Deny there are mass graves in the chouf? Can you deny the butcher Jumblatts slaughtering of Christians. You can live in denial Haroun. Lest we forget.


Publicly supports Syria, the main suspect in the killing a prime minister and many other VIPs.


Supports normal diplomatic relations with Syria.

Supported by current Syrian allies in Lebanon who promoted Syria’s interests during its 30 years occupation of Lebanon.

Please tell me how the recent Lebanese Christian gathering promotes Syrian interests?

Allies himself with terrorists who believe in the supremacy of Islamic laws over the constitution.


I can be bothered looking for SHN speech regarding welayet al fakih. Stop this BS such system is impossible in Lebanon.

Supports weapons outside government control


Until we have a clearly defined national defence strategy against the Zionist enemy who continues to occupy our land. Read the MOU dude.

Caused the bankruptcy of hundreds of Lebanese businesses
.

The bankruptcy was the result of ridiculous leasing costs of Solidere. Not the tents.

Participated in shutting downtown after Hizb fatass revolted against the government after it voted to approved the International Tribunal

We wanted a national unity government and fair electoral alw. We gotem 

Made up false allegation that the LF is responsible for the death of Frangieh and Chamoun. When it’s a well know fact that the LF didn’t exist at the time Frangieh was eliminated and Dory Chamoun and the leadership of the PNL deny the LF has anything to do with Dany’s murder
.

Dory chamoun lol denies it. Come on I am not commenting on this you know the truth.

Uses the plight of the displaced for cheap shot and score points.


If it wasn’t an issue of concern then he wouldn’t be scoring points would he? GMA and Dr Nassif Azzi who could be replacing Dr Mario Aoun who is now a minister are the only two voicing the concerns of the chouf displaced.

allah lebnen aoun wa bass

the only circus taking place is inside M14. you know "farato" when jumblat starts attacking and critizing the west and his allies in m14. lol GMA was realistic and fair in his demands and right for equal representation. But JaaJaa Khourfen. the idiot is even threatening not to take part hahahaha who gives a F&^K. again haroun keefo jaaja these days. Its a new dawn man, a new era, a new world and GMA is its master.
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Postby jieh2008 » Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:49 am

haroun wrote:2k8,
You recall the Lebanese saying: ”kol lee mann to3asher akol laka mann 2ant” With about ¾ the list classified as Syrian agents that makes the organizers Syrian agents. You question my credibility but my feelings and beliefs are real and true.

Many of us have an idea how things should be, and can tell right from wrong. Today I find it difficult to turn my head away when the wrong is so obvious. As PrinceCadmus II once alluded, venting is healthy.


Haroun; are you telling me that ¾ of this list are classified as Syrian agents.?. I’m sure you have credible information’s to support your statement. Please enlighten me, are you running a counter intelligent operations, or just they are guilty by associations. And (is) was there any one form March 14 you can classified as a Syrian agent?. don't forget to be real and true. and yes go McCain.
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Postby haroun » Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:54 pm

Ok, here ye go

Michel Aoun – While they exchange romantic letters, he doesn’t miss an opportunity to defend Syria and its murderous regime, and he uses every opportunity to express dislike and hate to the Lebanese government and its supporters. In my book, these are the actions of a Syrian agent.

Gibran Hassan x‘allah Basil – Defends Syria and hizb fatass and their weapons at every occasion. He never says a positive word about his country. A perfect example of what ‘clean’ money can buy.

If you peek into Generals Shamel Mozaya and Lteif trophy closets you’ll count more Syrian medals than anything else.

Emil La77oud Jr, is the son of the top Syrian representative to Lebanon for 15 years.

Salameh and Bakradouni are two top Syrian agents. Their mission: split and destroy the Kataeb.

Sir Nabil Nikoula the heir of Antoun Se3adeh and a Trojan horse in the FPM.

Gina Hobeika, guess what her loyal, smart and kind daddy done in his hay days?

Oh let’s not forget the stand alone super think tank Michel Smeha and his Nobel prize winning theories about the fate of world especially America and Israel.

Slimy, doesn’t need introduction, the name speaks for itself.

Then you have the greatest orator Lebanon has known. In his 30 years in the Parliament Mr. Firzly broke every record for length of given speech from which a Chinese can pick far more than a Lebanese with very attentive ear.

Skef, the man who gave the keys of Za7le to the Assad family.

Mokaiber, the shining star of the Metn. A mélange of everything except Lebanese. He’s walking in the foot steps of his dad and the shadows of Assad.

No need to open the files of the “ex”s. We all know how they got to the positions they held.

Jean Aziz – Riz2allah 3al arabiyet w 3a Jezzine. Find out who is standing and you’ll see Aziz next to him.

Ra7abnis, now here are couple of dedicated Christian leaders. Well, I don’t blame them for being there. They sell more cds and cassettes in Syria than anywhere else.
Everything I said nothing but real and true!– and yes go McCain.

شمعون: حرام أن يعير احد عون أهمية لأن دواءه ليس عندنا بل في العصفورية
الجوزو: لقد سقط لبنان وسقطت حكوماته، بفضل إرهاب حزب الله
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Postby jieh2008 » Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:00 am

haroun wrote:Ok, here ye go

Michel Aoun – While they exchange romantic letters, he doesn’t miss an opportunity to defend Syria and its murderous regime, and he uses every opportunity to express dislike and hate to the Lebanese government and its supporters. In my book, these are the actions of a Syrian agent.

Gibran Hassan x‘allah Basil – Defends Syria and hizb fatass and their weapons at every occasion. He never says a positive word about his country. A perfect example of what ‘clean’ money can buy.

If you peek into Generals Shamel Mozaya and Lteif trophy closets you’ll count more Syrian medals than anything else.

Emil La77oud Jr, is the son of the top Syrian representative to Lebanon for 15 years.

Salameh and Bakradouni are two top Syrian agents. Their mission: split and destroy the Kataeb.

Sir Nabil Nikoula the heir of Antoun Se3adeh and a Trojan horse in the FPM.

Gina Hobeika, guess what her loyal, smart and kind daddy done in his hay days?

Oh let’s not forget the stand alone super think tank Michel Smeha and his Nobel prize winning theories about the fate of world especially America and Israel.

Slimy, doesn’t need introduction, the name speaks for itself.

Then you have the greatest orator Lebanon has known. In his 30 years in the Parliament Mr. Firzly broke every record for length of given speech from which a Chinese can pick far more than a Lebanese with very attentive ear.

Skef, the man who gave the keys of Za7le to the Assad family.

Mokaiber, the shining star of the Metn. A mélange of everything except Lebanese. He’s walking in the foot steps of his dad and the shadows of Assad.

No need to open the files of the “ex”s. We all know how they got to the positions they held.

Jean Aziz – Riz2allah 3al arabiyet w 3a Jezzine. Find out who is standing and you’ll see Aziz next to him.

Ra7abnis, now here are couple of dedicated Christian leaders. Well, I don’t blame them for being there. They sell more cds and cassettes in Syria than anywhere else.
Everything I said nothing but real and true!– and yes go McCain.


I will give you a passing grade. Have you ignore my March 14 question deliberately? and yes go Mc CAIN.
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Postby Abou Jamra » Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:26 pm

Don't dismiss Aoun's 'big tent' strategy

You called it a "circus" Michael Young calls it a "big tent". difference between you and Michael Young ya Haroun is that he admits his wrongs and appologises for them. this was from last week.


It is easy to dismiss the National Christian Gathering established last week as largely an assemblage of pro-Syrian politicians, has-beens, and never-beens. In fact launching the group was a shrewd move by Michel Aoun, one the March 14 majority will regret not having done first. The gathering reflects a realistic reading by Aoun of his political prospects in next year's elections. The general knows that the days of bringing into Parliament a large bloc of yes-men are over and that he must, therefore, ally himself with politicians having a power base in those districts where he competes. The Christian gathering is Aoun's way of compensating. By bringing those politicians into his "big tent," the general turns himself into the godfather of a broad Christian coalition, one that is likely to win a majority of seats in Baabda, Metn, Kisirwan and Jbeil, and perhaps even in Zahleh and the mainly Christian voting district in Beirut.

For those Christian politicians who did not benefit from the post-2005 order, Aoun's gathering is their ticket back into the system. They gain from riding Aoun's coattails, and he gains from their willingness to defer to him as the most potent of Christian leaders. Aoun may have lost the presidency through his own blunders, but his fallback plan is to be the president of the Christians, and there he might well succeed.

The Christian Gathering benefits from something else as well. It brings together certifiable electoral favorites. The Tashnak Party will give Aoun substantial weight in the Metn, which is why Michel Murr may have no alternative but to reach some sort of an understanding with Aoun and the Armenians. In Zghorta, Suleiman Franjieh is guaranteed of winning at least two of the constituency's three seats, and the likelihood of a sweep is high. In Zahleh, Elie Skaff is vulnerable, but the fact that he has been handed the Agriculture Ministry, which will allow him to dispense patronage in his mostly agricultural constituency, like the fact that there will be voters who will side with Skaff to avoid ceding too much weight to the sizeable Sunni electorate around Zahleh, will play to his advantage.

As for the Baabda constituency, like the one in Jbeil, there Aoun will benefit from the unified Shiite vote controlled by Hizbullah. The general may decide to back some candidates close to the president, Michel Suleiman, but they will owe their election to Aoun.

Then there is the fact that Aoun's new gathering, while it contains prominent pro-Syrians, also includes individuals who opposed Syria. For every Michel Samaha you have a Shakib Qortbawi, for every Suleiman Franjieh and Elie Ferzli you have a Farid al-Khazen and a Pierre Dakkash; and while Fares Boueiz may not be what he was when his father-in-law, Elias Hrawi, was president, he was among the few parliamentarians who voted against an extension of Emile Lahoud's mandate, and he was on hand at the Hariri residence on February 14, 2005, when the opposition at the time read its bill of indictment against Syria and the Lebanese government following Rafik Hariri's assassination.

Those of us who prematurely wrote Aoun off as a Christian force are being forced to backtrack. The general has been destructive; he has foolishly alienated the Sunni community when doing the contrary would have almost certainly guaranteed his election as president; he has built up a strategic relationship with a party, Hizbullah, that is the greatest single threat to the sovereignty of the state that the Lebanese have ever known; yet Aoun has endured because, while he has lost ground within the Christian community, many of his coreligionists, even when they don't care for the general, tend to think like him and have gone along with him whenever he has vented their frustrations with the post-Taif order.

This is where March 14 comes in. The parliamentary majority lost the Christians because of the quadripartite agreement of 2005, but has done nothing since then to make up for that loss. When the Christians see Saad Hariri and Walid Jumblatt, they see two men who have absolute control over constituencies in which the Christian representatives are picked by them. The same applies to predominantly Shiite areas, but for some reason today the Christians have a blind eye when it comes to Hizbullah. This control by Hariri and Jumblatt bothers the Christians to no end, because it only confirms their decline and speaks to a type of leadership alien to Lebanese politics. Before 1975, even the most powerful leaders rarely controlled blocs larger than a dozen odd parliamentarians.

Jumblatt, who knows his Lebanese history better than most, may already be recalculating his options for 2009. He has written Baabda off to Aoun, though Jumblatt will retain his control over the Chouf and Aley. But even in Aley Jumblatt may have to give up a seat, perhaps even two, to his Druze rival Talal Arslan. In the Chouf, Jumblatt will surely win, since Druze and Sunni voters together make up two-thirds of the electorate. But in 2005 the Aounist candidate Mario Aoun won almost all the Christian votes, an ominous warning sign for the Druze leader.

As Jumblatt looks around him, as he surveys Christian attitudes in the Chouf, as he sees the Christians of Baabda perhaps heading Aoun's way once again, and as he sees Hizbullah pining to clip his wings, he may have no choice but to improve his relations with the Christians. Jumblatt needs them as a counterbalance to Hizbullah, but he also needs to prepare, as some observers have remarked, for the possibility that electoral districts will be redrawn to his disadvantage by a new Parliament. In that context, we shouldn't be surprised that Jumblatt, if he reckons that Aoun is here to stay, takes a more conciliatory attitude toward the general.

That leaves Saad Hariri. The way electoral districts are drawn under the 1960 law, the Sunni leader will not affect the fate of Christian candidates in the way he did in 2005. By and large the election will be one where Aoun has less latitude to rally Christians against Hariri and the Sunnis. However, that should not be an excuse for the Future Movement, and for March 14 in general, to fail to adopt a more creative strategy when it comes to the Christians. If the majority wants its candidates to be elected next year, it must begin working now on bolstering a credible coalition of Christian politicians, legitimate ones, who can either stand their ground against Aoun or force him into concluding electoral alliances with them.

These Christian politicians need to be viewed by their community as independent, they need to talk about those issues that most concern Christians, they need to begin coordinating on an election strategy now, and they need to spend money and distribute patronage, which Aoun has been far more adept at doing. But being a favorite brings with it liabilities: Aoun is bound to disappoint some of those who see him as their path to an election victory. In that case, there is no reason why the March 14 Christians could not turn the tables on Aoun and do what he has done: pick up those people whom the general will have failed to satisfy.

Until such a scheme takes shape, Aoun holds the upper hand. March 14 has fashioned no serious agenda to which Christians are attracted, and if it cannot do so by election time, then some of its more pragmatic leaders might decide that if Aoun is what you get, then just work with Michel Aoun.
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